[Forum] L2j Presents: Advanced Users

[ThePhoenixBird]

Just my 2 cents but wouldnt it be better to start actually looking through the contributions and either implementing or telling the contributors what's wrong and what to fix(and coaching them so their learning curve gets steaper)...
... it's the attention and the coaching that they get from the people who are in charge that make contributors stay around, better themselves and contribute even more(and better code) to a project...

Actually this is a community work, developers are not always with free time to see around all the forum contributions and check them one by one, is the community that plays an important role on this phase where they work together to get "good" contributions fixed and ready to commit, once a developer check the forums and see contributions fully tested and ready they are commited.

Your idea is what we want to archieve, promising developers are contacted by PM and they get invitations to either Initiates group or Adv. Users, this in order to get them closer to us a coach them around the ways of the L2j-fu

Why move them into different groups? we know that all the people that visit our forum arent developers, so we want to put them on a place where we can clearly see them, help them and coach them. We know that there are many developers out there are not Initiates and Adv. Users yet, but we ask them a bit of patience, this is just an "experimental feature" that we are testing and according to their results it could be massified and granted to all the ones that regularly contribute to our forums, either with code contributions or quality support in forums.

[theone]

Thx for the explanation Phoenix.
Although your motivations are very noble, and I did understand them from the get-go, I still say that the best way to build a community is to coach its members regardless(and even more so for the "weaker elements") of rank or "group".
I believe in coaching the community as a whole much more than just coaching a select group of individuals. I will state as an example a former member of the L2J dev team: Fulminus.
He had a way of turning any code submitted or question asked into a tutorial for the whole community to learn from, this in effect was creating a "buzz" and getting people, no matter their level of knowledge or experience, to want to learn more. This is what I meant with my comment. I believe(and we can agree to disagree on this, I have alot of respect for you) that this is the better way to go if you want to increase the level of quality of the contributions in general. I am not actively developing for L2J/*fork* anymore, I'm... lets say... semi-retired from mmo development and working on other personal projects now(still java-related, not to worry ) so this comment is meant to better this community as a whole, who gave me alot in the past. I believe in leading by example and I hope that you guys will stop this "segregation nonsense"(still my personal opinion, please dont feel offended) and focus on the community as a whole. As you know, this is why *fork* got started in the first place... we left the L2J community because we felt that there were "select groups" of people who did their own thing and we didnt fit in, what you're doing now is just adding one more layer of "select people". Anyway, this was my ranting for today at least you're trying something... maybe you'll prove me wrong.

To BigBoss:
About the "There is something called REAL LIFE that many dont know yet" comment regarding what I said about Lecter never showing up...
There is a difference between having a real life and never even bothering to say hello to the tons of people who contribute to your project. I know very well that he's present on your private(dev-only) forums, but he never even comes to show sign of life on the regular forums. I think this is very ego-centric on his part... no one is so "high and mighty" that he is above saying "hi" or "thank you" to the people who help his project on a daily basis. From my point of vue, it looks as if he thinks that all the contributors on his forum are "lower life forms" and that he'll talk only to the select few who he chooses to be part of his team. In other words BigBoss, please mind your own business if you're going to talk through your [I think I cant say this word here...].

To DrLecter:
What's the deal with the "Inner Circle"? When will you(Lecter) learn that it's not by creating a sealed hierarchy that we make projects move forward? With a team about 1/2 the size of your "official team" we managed to create an emulator much more complete and much more efficient than L2J, you know why? because we consider our members as all equals! everyone has a voice, everyone has a right to make mistakes as long as he/she learns from them, everyone learns from everyone else. It's not by doing everything important behind closed doors that you'll better your project, but by opening yourself up to the community, because they are the future of your project, not you or your team, the community as a whole is the future of L2J.

[momo61]

To DrLecter:
What's the deal with the "Inner Circle"? When will you(Lecter) learn that it's not by creating a sealed hierarchy that we make projects move forward? With a team about 1/2 the size of your "official team" we managed to create an emulator much more complete and much more efficient than L2J, you know why? because we consider our members as all equals! everyone has a voice, everyone has a right to make mistakes as long as he/she learns from them, everyone learns from everyone else. It's not by doing everything important behind closed doors that you'll better your project, but by opening yourself up to the community, because they are the future of your project, not you or your team, the community as a whole is the future of L2J.

I have to agree with TheOne here. I have never liked the way things are done around here. First of all, you never know who really is in charge here. Some devs forbidding other devs to committ things. Other devs just wearing their L2J title and still they do nothing at all except insult, ridicule, make fun of and harass members (Yes, I'm talking about you ZaKaX). And yet other devs simply wear their inner circle title or veteran titles yet never bother saying hello. The way things are done here is not right. There must be some kind of restructuring and a "cleanup" with some kind of ethics code of behaviour. It saddens me to see that people that you once admired and looked up to turn into the biggest jerks either because of their title, the stress they carry with them or simply because others are being jerks too.

- my 17 cents -

[LasTravel]

To DrLecter:
What's the deal with the "Inner Circle"? When will you(Lecter) learn that it's not by creating a sealed hierarchy that we make projects move forward? With a team about 1/2 the size of your "official team" we managed to create an emulator much more complete and much more efficient than L2J, you know why? because we consider our members as all equals! everyone has a voice, everyone has a right to make mistakes as long as he/she learns from them, everyone learns from everyone else. It's not by doing everything important behind closed doors that you'll better your project, but by opening yourself up to the community, because they are the future of your project, not you or your team, the community as a whole is the future of L2J.

I agree too.

[Stake]

To DrLecter:
What's the deal with the "Inner Circle"? When will you(Lecter) learn that it's not by creating a sealed hierarchy that we make projects move forward? With a team about 1/2 the size of your "official team" we managed to create an emulator much more complete and much more efficient than L2J, you know why? because we consider our members as all equals! everyone has a voice, everyone has a right to make mistakes as long as he/she learns from them, everyone learns from everyone else. It's not by doing everything important behind closed doors that you'll better your project, but by opening yourself up to the community, because they are the future of your project, not you or your team, the community as a whole is the future of L2J.

I agree too.

I agree too.
I always wondered why there is that big hierarchy in L2j community, mostly on forums. There should be only moderators and 1 or 2 administrators on the forum, nothing else. It's an open source project, and it is not for gratifying our leadership upon others. Btw, it's not fluster us that much, just makes us wonder why.

[mgbhard]

I don't care about de rank system, in every community or team, there must be a leadership chain (se dira asi en ingles?), and to be honest, i think it's actually improves devs performance if they see they can get a greater tittle.

What i don't like, is the "keep the things to test only for devs", that makes times way longer, some things are forgotten, or not improved as they can be.
If we are a community, then we should help to test all that we can. I've read many devs saying that it's better to keep them private so noob admins don't flood the forum with "don't work" complaints, but... noob admins don't know how to appply a patch, for me it's a not valid excuse.

Regards
Marcelo

[jurchiks]

Also agreeing to TheOne, there's nothing I could possibly add ATM.

[nBd]

Amen.

[ZaKaX]

Other devs just wearing their L2J title and still they do nothing at all except insult, ridicule, make fun of and harass members (Yes, I'm talking about you ZaKaX). And yet other devs simply wear their inner circle title or veteran titles yet never bother saying hello.[/b]

Please link me a thread where I insulted/rediculised someone that was acting normal. I know I haven't been doing nor sharing much since I first entered the team, however you're not in position to argue about this. Tell me when did you do something for L2J? You always come up with your fucking annoying posts such as "any test result?" in other people contributions, or come up with shit talk like this one. You ain't any better than ZaKaX.

Dude, seriously, look at yourself, you pretends to be that blonde to get people to work on custom stuff for you, what the fuck? That's screwed up. Once again, don't blame others for your own failure. Now, if you have something you'd like to discuss, you know where to get me... even though I hate spending my time with retards of the net I'll give you few minutes.

@others talking shit about DrLecter and others inactive members of the L2JTeam:
They have other things to do, they've been around for years and believe me years after years your will to work on L2J fly away. That's something you'll never understand though, simply because you don't do a shit on your own.

This thread should be cleaned. It's going nowhere with those crying babies. Amen.

[momo61]

I first wrote:

Other devs just wearing their L2J title and still they do nothing at all except insult, ridicule, make fun of and harass members (Yes, I'm talking about you ZaKaX). And yet other devs simply wear their inner circle title or veteran titles yet never bother saying hello.[/b]

Please link me a thread where I insulted/rediculised someone that was acting normal. I know I haven't been doing nor sharing much since I first entered the team, however you're not in position to argue about this.

This is the exact kind of problem TheOne and everybody else are talking about. You see yourself as something better than me due to your successful gameserver or your position here at L2J. Thank you for telling me which rank in the hierarchy I am in. And thank you for acknowledging what you have accomplished so far here at L2J. Even if someone is acting like a complete idiot/newbie when it comes to coding, developing or simply asking a question regarding L2J, you have to act like a PROFESSIONAL and try to help him if you got time or feel like it, because it's most likely his first time asking. Otherwise you should simply keep your mouth shut. But I guess that if you don't insult people that "dont act normal", then you're simply of no use to L2J right?

Tell me when did you do something for L2J? You always come up with your fucking annoying posts such as "any test result?" in other people contributions, or come up with shit talk like this one. You ain't any better than ZaKaX.

How dare you compare me to the likes of yourself? I myself as often stated by L2J core devs have a real life, and my field of expertise has very little to do with computers (Accounting & Construction engineering). However, I do like games and my hobby is my L2J server. Don't dare to compare me to yourself. I have done work for L2J, and I have tried, and I have tested. I have done work and tested work for Aikimaniac in the past, for DS multiple times, for janiii multiple times and for other devs. I test as often as I can and where I think is important to test. I also provide bug reports that most likely have been fixed on your glorious and godly server since long ago, but you're just too selfish to committ anything here.(Yet still you wear the l2j initiate title, how ironic. what will you become next? Inner circle?).

what have I done so far? Here is just some of my efforts that got committed (not to mention my efforts that didnt get mentioned around here):

http://www.l2jdp.com/trac/changeset/5235
http://www.l2jdp.com/trac/changeset/5426
http://www.l2jdp.com/trac/changeset/5440
http://www.l2jdp.com/trac/changeset/5443
http://www.l2jdp.com/trac/changeset/5451
http://www.l2jdp.com/trac/changeset/5517
http://www.l2jdp.com/trac/changeset/6285
http://www.l2jdp.com/trac/changeset/6426
http://www.l2jserver.com/trac/changeset/3080
http://www.l2jserver.com/trac/changeset/3101
http://www.l2jserver.com/trac/changeset/3540

Well will you look at that ? From the looks of it, I have done much more than you. (touché) I see no thx to zakax and almost no shares/work from you. Don't you dare call me a freeloader or that I act like a blonde girl that gets people to work for me. And let me just tell you something else. If I had known java coding like __DS__, House or nBd, I'd rip this project a new "you know what" with my committs and work. And in a further way to assist the project, I threw in a donation from time to time. what did you do?

Dude, seriously, look at yourself, you pretends to be that blonde to get people to work on custom stuff for you, what the fuck? That's screwed up. Once again, don't blame others for your own failure. Now, if you have something you'd like to discuss, you know where to get me... even though I hate spending my time with retards of the net I'll give you few minutes.

This thread should be cleaned. It's going nowhere with those crying babies. Amen.

This further proves what kind of egoistic child-like person you are. I don't know what you benefit from calling me a retard in front of all the members here, but you have been doing it to everybody for a while now, and it's really getting boring and old. And just for the record ZaKaX. I talked to janiii not to long ago, and she hates your guts for the way you are. I doubt janiii would ever dispute that. And I'm sure many others do too.

You want this thread cleaned? Start by talking in a more serious and professional manner. Or simply don't talk at all, and do your title as initiate the honor and fix something around here for heavens sake. I think that with this post I have publicly humiliated you, and that's my right due to your unacceptable behaviour. Hope my right to speak my mind (free speech) is preserved here at l2j since I've been a member since june 2008 and what i just wrote above.

Have a nice day. Peace.

[Probe]

how the hell cares about your personal rivalries? you're getting way out of topic, it's not about who does more than the other, it's about taking this project forward, which neither of you are doing atm.

[ZaKaX]

You're just an attention whore, nothing else... and obviously this global thread is the perfect place for you to show your e-pen.

What are you trying to accomplish exactly? Show how awesome you are compared to me/us? why so much hate, jealousy, rage?

I honestly don't give a damn shit about whatever you think and whatever you say.

And about Janiii... love always starts by a little war. We may end up married momo! I won't mention how people talk about you... I won't go that low

[momo61]

You're just an attention whore, nothing else... and obviously this global thread is the perfect place for you to show your e-pen.

What are you trying to accomplish exactly? Show how awesome you are compared to me/us? why so much hate, jealousy, rage?

I honestly don't give a damn shit about whatever you think and whatever you say.

And about Janiii... love always starts by a little war. We may end up married momo! I won't mention how people talk about you... I won't go that low

Look Zakax, I'm not here for a personal flame war between us, I just tried stating facts how I see them. I never insulted anyone, and I never told a lie about anyone.
You see, another thing that's so annoying about you is that you're so blinded by your success that you think that everyone is jealous of you. I honestly don't care that much about your success (in fact I'm happy for you), I just find it sad that someone with so much potential and with that rank here at l2j is doing nothing but to flame people like you are doing here now. I think you need to grow up.

And about janiii, she will marry me. She won't be able to say no once I make a proposal to her. Janiii, will you marry me!?

I wish a good e-day to you e-m8.

[Stake]

Just to ask you momo: Have you ever played on L2World server? Because there was a player named Momo about 3 years ago. I'm just wondering.

[mgbhard]

ON: FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!

Off: For those who speak spanish: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-9l7EUDVDQ