To All no l2j projects but l2j based

[Sylar88]

There are tons of criterias which can be used to split "good from evil" but who are we to judge ?

There's a fine line between judgement and common sense. It doesnt take lots of horse power to figure out that in order to be part of an open source programming project, you need some programming knowledge does it ? Its not judgement. Its common sense. Its a java project, you do need to know some java/xml/sql to be part of the project. Since when was the policy, make every lineage 2 player a server/fork owner ?

once somebody isnt pleased with this community for his own reasons (leechers...sharing...whatever else)..he can leave

And here is you, passing judgement to those that disagree with the projects direction. But thats ok. Its an opinion. Though, those that took this path exist and they are the well known forks that derive from l2j. The fork people who disagree and were not given the right to influence with their stance. So they left. And what did l2j do about it ? It tried to make their life difficult by modifying the changeset view, changing the license from GNU to GPL and so on. I'm saying it again. This is the wrong approach. You cant just shut down everyone that follows a different way. And when people especially follow them and prefer their packs that means there is a part of the community out there that has different needs than what you provide.

but this project was established by L2Chef due reasons ive mentioned

L2Chef is not the god of l2j ( Well maybe the king ). So instead of analyzing what L2Chef would want and have a dispute similar to orthodox's vs catholic's over who "translates" gods desires better, lets focus on what the current community would want from the project.

Hmm...you mention competition...who can not compete shouldnt start server. Im sure that all those shitty servers and lame server out there wont keep players and they will go to good servers

And finally, i wont even have to comment on that. I will just paste a log : Desperion: 177 / L2Crimson: 1751 You still think that good code gets you ahead ? Think again. Promytheus did the mistake to give the fire to humans, we should get taught a lot from Mythology. Its another thing to teach something to those willing to learn and a completelly different one to hand over things to those just waiting to make a profit out of it. And to make it simmple, a guy who didnt bother reading the svn or ant manual and just waited for you to make him a visual guide with pics for eclipse is not a guy that is willing to learn ... Its the definition of the leecher.


PS: I just made a profile signature out of this

[Aikimaniac]

Do not accuse me with that im passing judgement to anyone with the "he can leave"..maybe other scenario will make you see what i meant: train goes from one stop to another one to some direction...once somebody doesnt like the direction of the train, he can step out on next station or maybe jump out.. no need to look deeper...here are mostly behaviour scenarios of forum users (no need to be touchy and look for yourself in any group):

1) you like it, you stay and help
2) you like it and you only leech cause you are lazy or too stupid to help
3) you dont like it you but stay and bitch
4) you dont like and leave
5) you have no idea if you like or not, if help or not, if bitch or not, but you still have feeling to be the smartest one and give hint how you would like it

P.S Regarding leeches, we can say that everyone who did less then we did is technicaly leecher

[Szponiasty]

lol..use your sources (whatever they are, if money or hacking skills) to do what is necessary to get more players..if youre not able to do that, you wont have them..no matter if you pay advertising or not...if youre not able to have players but have features nobody has, problem is somewhere else.. not in advertising....and there is no problem to go to bank, get money, advertise, players come, make donations, go back to bank to payback.. life is a bitch and to QQ cause somebody has donations and has then money for promo is lame... people will be always jealous about others successes...

I'm not QQ about someone has donation or not, or money, or players or anything else. Im saying how l2j team philosophy works in real world and how bad it is for project development. Also is this java learning/support forum? Dont think so.

[Sylar88]

what i meant: train goes from one stop to another one to some direction...

Ever heard of the Schienenwolf Baza H264 ?

Allow me :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRBN6oFt2hw

[Aikimaniac]

nice color movie from that time..

[MELERIX]

Direct3D too (u can choose in settings)

well... is not Direct X xD

is 3DFX (Glide3D) other api used by the old Voodoo Graphic Cards in the past, before Nvidia killed it

L2Chef is not the god of l2j ( Well maybe the king ). So instead of analyzing what L2Chef would want and have a dispute similar to orthodox's vs catholic's over who "translates" gods desires better, lets focus on what the current community would want from the project.

L2Chef in not a god, king or whatever, but he is who made an idea/concept...

"Create, Help, Share"

enough words for a OpenSource project, thats all

but some people don't like the 2nd and 3rd words (or can't deal with it), thats why project speed is slow

[gmakhs]

so why this guys who want to aim on a diferent directions don'tcooporate with l2j devs?? or l2j forum users? so then we will have teams who everyone will work on diferent directions but for the same project.


i realuy don't care is someone have more players or donations... i do it for free and just for fun of it but someone else do it for another reasons thats ok. but everyone must help this community



my opinion is that developers who want to start another projects is better to stay here and work the same custom things but on cooporate with l2j devs. we work realy slow and NCZ0ft goes fast walking diferent directions will just slow us down..

as about tests and everything??? i had an idea before that we can make a server or two server(one retail like one custom like) and use the players as testers on our update ... and work all together to improve l2j this will speed up test results and will allow (since the fixes will be on public svn) others server co - exist. i can offer dedicated server or something but i never propuse this idea before becouse i believe noone will want to do it

as for the server idea i allready thing about hosting a server so event noob developers with a gm char will be able to helps us with dv! implementations by do things by hands i don't know maybe my idea is stupid ... but if someone willing to help (even with server or with dv implemention here im)

[gmakhs]

so by all this i mean that we must start REALY COOPORATE if we want to improve this project and not every one care about himself

[jurchiks]

The problem is not the community not cooperating, but the dev team refusing the offers to cooperate. Haven't you noticed how many contribs are there in the user contributions/scripts support and a few other sections?
Does anybody care of them? No (there are oh so few exceptions that I'm not even going to count them).

Nobody is going to lick ass to get cooperation.

[Sylar88]

"Create, Help, Share"

enough words for a OpenSource project, thats all

but some people don't like the 2nd and 3rd words (or can't deal with it), thats why project speed is slow

Ok Pope, lets bring in the religion

Create

By definition it is a fact that many people in here have created things that have never been incorporated to the repositiroy. Thats either because noone cared to spend time looking into that or they were things that dont comply by the "standards" the l2j follows. I'll bring you an example from my humble position. I shared only two things in my life in l2j in this forum. A small fix in olympiad cap in enchant that didnt include HP bonus cap and LOS for fences. The first one, a very simple thing that i needed for my server too got commited in 5 hours since it was something that comply by the l2j standards. The second, i just wasted my time refreshing my first year calculus and geometry since the only person that took the time to look into the code was Szponiasty. So if a jackass leecher like me creates something small, imagine what others have created and didnt get added simply cause they are not what l2j wants in the pack.

Share

The previous paragraph explains reasonably enough why a big part of the shares does not get released into ... the wild. It wont get approved cause its not following l2j's direction.

Help

Hold on a minute right there buddy. What does help mean ? I'll tell you what it means. Gipsy walks into a french restaurant without any money in his pockets, willing to pay nothing but demanding to eat the best food there is. The waiter comes next to gipsy and says : Oh our favourite customer. What would you like to order kind and nobble gentleman ? And the gipsy goes : I pay, you order.

Help doesnt mean that the community is obligated to setup every gipsy's server.

I think you get the point

[gmakhs]

i thing beta svn started for this reason to test the most of users contributions and commit

[MELERIX]

i thing beta svn started for this reason to test the most of users contributions and commit

exactly

[gmakhs]

so the only thing that we need to do is to split on teams and start working.... i allready startred with dv

[MELERIX]

Ok Pope, lets bring in the religion

what religion ? lol, concept != religion

Create

By definition it is a fact that many people in here have created things that have never been incorporated to the repositiroy. Thats either because noone cared to spend time looking into that or they were things that dont comply by the "standards" the l2j follows. I'll bring you an example from my humble position. I shared only two things in my life in l2j in this forum. A small fix in olympiad cap in enchant that didnt include HP bonus cap and LOS for fences. The first one, a very simple thing that i needed for my server too got commited in 5 hours since it was something that comply by the l2j standards. The second, i just wasted my time refreshing my first year calculus and geometry since the only person that took the time to look into the code was Szponiasty. So if a jackass leecher like me creates something small, imagine what others have created and didnt get added simply cause they are not what l2j wants in the pack.

Share

The previous paragraph explains reasonably enough why a big part of the shares does not get released into ... the wild. It wont get approved cause its not following l2j's direction.

I already explained the reasons before... viewtopic.php?p=141466#p141466

Help

Hold on a minute right there buddy. What does help mean ? I'll tell you what it means. Gipsy walks into a french restaurant without any money in his pockets, willing to pay nothing but demanding to eat the best food there is. The waiter comes next to gipsy and says : Oh our favourite customer. What would you like to order kind and nobble gentleman ?

I think you get the point

a definition of help is really simple, just look Linux Kernel community forums how advanced people help the new guys, even in the most basic things you can imagine

[Zoey76]

The problem is not the community not cooperating, but the dev team refusing the offers to cooperate. Haven't you noticed how many contribs are there in the user contributions/scripts support and a few other sections?
Does anybody care of them? No (there are oh so few exceptions that I'm not even going to count them).

Nobody is going to lick ass to get cooperation.

@jurchiks
You are wrong, the community has to test and give feedback, if that doesn't happen blaming the developer team is an excuse to being selfish and stop sharing, don't be lazy and test stuff then come back and report.

Myself, I have posted things that reached about 100 downloads and zero answers, not even to say this is bullsh1t, so you pretend that developers not only develop the main features (and test them since community doesn't do it) also test community contributions?

Don't kid yourself and most important stop blaming the developers, haven't you noticed how many things we need to test ourselves because they could sit in forum for month before someone test it?

@Sylar88
Is not the first time that you suggest that L2J should be more elitist, I know (and belive me on this one, I give a lot more support that you ever will) that most people is lazy and won't take a book or an online study material to learn how to do it by themselves, but that doesn't mean we should make it harder/restricted, L2J is not only about the emulator, is a lot more, is a concept that lies in the idea of sharing the knowledge and having fun, learning and improving your skills, respecting everybody's levels and help them to be as good as you

The good thing is that I won't see the day L2J turns into a elitist/selfish project, won't happen while people willing to do better is around.

Finally you don't want to fix the problems you want to cutoff the part of the community so you don't have to deal with it.

For those that that blame developers and how we make the choices, I just remember you that we all were rank-less community members and we got lots of contributions forgotten/ignored/rejected, so please use that programmers heads to figure out the right path, keep sharing, helping others, respecting everyone and after that you'll learn that being part of the project is not a rank badge or being registered in the forums, being part of the project is an attitude, a way to do things, helping others even when you are not completely agree, because that is what team work is about, leave own expectations in order to fulfil the project's ones.